Gender choice?

[Casey Kieran]

So often I hear people say things like "he wants to be a she" and I find that very irritating because I never felt like it was a choice. In fact, that statement is upside down in my case. I actually *wanted* to be male. Since childhood I just wanted to feel like I was in the correct body and I wanted to be what everybody else expected and assumed me to be - a boy. I tried to be a boy and then a man. It didn't work and my efforts only seemed to make the emotional pain worse.

I'm wondering if everybody innately knows their gender or if there are people who actually make some sort of conscious decision that they want to be the opposite gender for some reason?

Thanks in advance for your comments.

[Phoenix]

Hi Casey.

I TOTALLY relate to thie...I'm FtM....I wanted to be a girl...I liked the clothes they got to wear and they looked so sexy....The thing is I WAS wearing the clothes that "they" wore! I was told that I looked sexy....It's hard to explain the phenomena to some folks.

Phoenix

[kaitlyn b]

I too become irritated at those who claim that I've "made a choice" Not only was this out of my hands, but it often pisses me off that not only will I never know what it's like to be a natal woman, but I'll never have known what it was like to be a real "man" either. Pretty fucked up if you ask me, I mean what the hell do I know about either gender anyway...

[Cindy]

Hi Casey, Been a while since I been on this board.

No it wasn't a choice for me ether, although I prefered being around girls and doing stuff with girls and playing house and dressup growing up. I hid my inner feelings from the outside world that were not aproprate for ta boy, and heaven forbid if anyone should find out, "shuders!" My big secrete and my big sin I use to think. I never doubted that I was what my body said I was supposed to be so I did all I could to repress any other urges that were not characteristic to a boy.

I had no way of knowing what was wrong with me back in the 50's and right up til the mid 90's before I discovered the word transsexual and what it meant. It was a relief to know there was something I could do about it but it also felt like a terrifying curse. I have always been a sensitive person sensing and feeling things around me that others didn't not even some of my female friends but then that's another story under another category but both made life very difficult for me. I pray that I have answered some of the questions you have asked.

I might be a little old fashioned but I don't believe that anyone who says they want to be a girl (a chosen life style.) as opposed to I have an unrelenting need to be a girl at any cost, *cannot* be classified under the same classification. One needs to be who they are within. The other wants to play the part at their convenience but continue presenting in their male ID with no intentions of ever living as 100% female. But there has been way to much aggressive and hostile debate on other boards like this over this topic that I would sooner avoid such a conversation on an open board.

You may contact me by E-main if you wish.

Cindy

[Casey Kieran]

Hi Cindy!

Thanks for your comment. I'm glad you did because I had completely forgotten about that word, "sinful", my mom used that on me a few times whenever I wanted to wear girls clothes instead of boys clothes; stuff like that.

About the last part of your comment - I think we are talking about a difference between people who are transsexual and people who crossdress. If I understand correctly what you're saying then I agree - we are different animals in that respect. However, I don't think this is out of sync with what I stated when I started this discussion. I don't understand the crossdressing phenomena very well but it's my understanding that people who crossdress don't "want" (or "need" - as you more succinctly put it) to be the opposite gender. Instead, it's an enjoyable pastime - a recreational activity or something like that. I hope that this is in no way an insensitive statement but if it is, I sincerely apologize. Please do feel welcome everybody (all variations of trans as well as non-trans) to weigh in on this topic - I am finding it interesting to read these comments.

I have not been on other boards and so I have not witnessed the flame wars of which you speak. Let's not have that here; this board is about respect so let's keep it friendly. We are all seeking understanding and there will sometimes be awkwardness so we need to be patient and helpful for one another.

Thanks again Cindy :')

[Cindy]

Hi Cassey, I do not wish to start any negative controversy either, but unless they can invent some new more subtle English words in the dictionary, I'm afraid there is no milder way of expressing our thoughts and feelings on some certain topics dealing with transitioning, transsexuality and GID. For me GID is behind me, and the physical part of transitioning is over, "but," I will never be done transitioning mentally, emotionally and spiritually. That is an ongoing state of learning and growth that will continue until the day they put me in a pine box. I am as close to being female as medical science can make me, close enough to suit this old bat anyway. ;o)

But there are many others out there that are not seeking to completely transition, not just cross dressers, but also lifestylers, wannabees, or those who only desire to transition part way, like take hormones and grow breasts but that is the limit. "The wannabees," only wish to go out presenting as women part time, but have no further interest in going any further, like surgery and changing their legal names and living full time in the target gender/sex. Then you have the transvestite, androgynes, genderqueer, autogynephilia, Intersexual, drag king/queens, gays, etc etc.

As I see it, live and let live, but of one thing I am sure of and that is I knew something was wrong with me from as far back as memory goes, but because of the ignorance of the time there was not much else I could do except repress it. Years later when I finally knew just what it was that was wrong with me I took steps to correct it. I knew what steps I had to take and where I was going, and the rout I took was not the same as the rest of those birds in the list above. Mine was for survival, not some sort of game. Maybe it apears to be a game for us but means something else to them, but as you say, I do not understand their motive and I shall leave at that.

I am glad I was able to share more with you today at the voice training class. Their pretty neat and so are our teachers, great people.

I am who I am, I am me.
Have a wonderful evening

Cynthia

[Dan]

Well for me it is somewhat of a choice, because I'm bigendered. There's a part of me that feels female, and the male part used to be more suppressed but I think it was always there and I just didn't know how to let it out. I've been feeling more male lately, and I just want to validate that part of me. I could choose to stay female, but I would feel like only half of myself. I don't think I'll be losing the female part if I transition though. It's just his turn to come out and her turn to take a backseat.

[Cindy]

Hi Dan, This is only my own interpretation and not necessarily anyone else. We all have a slightly different angle or way of interpreting what we feel and experience in life.

In the beginning of my transition, it felt much as you describe it, like, there were two halves of me. Like two different people living in one body, actually in the beginning, I thought I was what I would later discover was labeled as androgyne. Like there were two me's, One part of me dwelled within and the other part dwelled on the outside. They were like two different entities, and at times I would have dialogs with my other half, of course when I was alone that is. However, I had these dialogs with the inner self since I was a kid, like an imaginary friend.

Things began to change and my perspective as to who I was came abruptly into focus when I discovered what the words transsexual and GID meant. It left no doubt as to who I was. I was who had dwelt within for all those years, and eventually she manifested herself on the outside as well.

After 9 years living full time as myself leaves no doubt in my mind as to who I am and always have been. It was the exterior part of me that had been apocryphal from the beginning. The folks that raised me and conditioned me according to my outer biological appearance had no way of knowing other wise, but inside I had always known that something was not right but had no way of knowing why I felt that way transsexuality was hardly heard of in my growing up years. I only knew I didn't feel or think like any of the other boys.

Now there is only one me, and I love and accept who I am, and I have found a good measure of peace I never had before.

I have posted another essay here on this board about my personal experience with transitioning leading up to SRS if you are interested in reading it.

Cindy

Wish there were more folks using this board one can express a lot ore then you can at the support groups but can be a good tool for topics of discussion at the groups..
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Dan said: cite="http://genderblender.ning.com/forum/topics/gender-choice#2255936Comment5441">
Well for me it is somewhat of a choice, because I'm bigendered. There's a part of me that feels female, and the male part used to be more suppressed but I think it was always there and I just didn't know how to let it out. I've been feeling more male lately, and I just want to validate that part of me. I could choose to stay female, but I would feel like only half of myself. I don't think I'll be losing the female part if I transition though. It's just his turn to come out and her turn to take a backseat.

[Dan]

Hi Cindy. Thanks for your response. It was interesting to read. I feel like two entities as well, and I am trying to combine them so I can feel whole but it is very difficult not to separate them. I also feel different from other transguys, because of my female part. I would like to discuss this further with you. I have sent you a friend request, so I hope we can discuss this through messages soon. Thanks again.

[Casey Kieran]

I'm finding this discussion very interesting so thanks to all of you for your contributions. Dan, I am especially glad that you weighed-in on this since I have never met or chatted with a bigender person before. It's beginning to seem to me that, while there are other gender identities besides male *or* female (like only one or the other), still it doesn't seem that anybody chooses their identity. Even bigender people - while perhaps choosing which gender to manifest - don't make a choice in the first place to be bigender. This is a little bit observation and much assumption so please correct me if I'm wrong.

I think this is such an important issue - if the general public could understand that we are not just making some whimsical choice - they could come to accept gender diversity more readily. They might realize that these things are out of our control, not our 'fault', or whatever.

[Dan]

Hi Casey- You're right, I didn't choose to be bigender. Even in choosing which gender to present as, it's part choice because I could choose to present as the gender I was born as since I do have that side as well, but it's also mostly based on which gender I feel more like. It's just a little scary because it's so fluid, so choosing to transition seems like more of a choice than some trans people who feel fully like that gender and don't have a doubt in their mind. Sometimes I do wish it was simpler though. I at least wish that I was more sure about it, because being bigender just makes things really confusing but it doesn't make the 'opposite' gender part of me any less real.

Thanks for the comment. I do wish people would be more readily accepting of trans people, but unfortunately there will always be intolerance. There are too many people that don't even want to try to understand.

[Casey Kieran]

You're so right Dan. So many people have cold, dark stones in the place where their hearts should have been. I feel like I was born in the wrong body, at the wrong time, and on the wrong planet. Surely I was meant to live on a planet devoid of hatred and cruelty.

I have learned so much in the last few years. One reason that I waited so long before starting transition was that I had no idea that it was even possible. I find it sad to think there are young people out there without parents or doctors who can help them because the options aren't even on those caregiver's radars. People are afraid of what they don't understand (I was a coward all my life until recently) and fear manifests itself in many ugly ways. You are young and I hope with all my heart that your world will be better.. it's going to take some time. Perhaps one day you'll find yourself living in a more understanding and compassionate society.

[Jaime Unrau]

Excellent point, Casey! Hi everyone :)

This topic is definitely at the heart of the trans situation, and, in my opinion, is the biggest lesson we need to communicate to the public. It is the same lesson that the GLB community spent so much energy trying to get across, which is, as Casey said, "it's not our fault"; or rather, what I think she meant to say,"it is not our choice" because I don't subscribe to the idea that there is any fault in our being transgender.

I had the same feeling you've all already described. I found that trying to be a boy, and then a man was a ridiculous pursuit. Me? A man? that always sounded absurd. Growing up, I never ever envisioned my adult self as a man. I felt silly in the role of a boy; that I was faking it to the point where I felt that so much of my personality was fictitious. This dysphoria caused a lot of depression, and brought me far too close to suicide for me to be comfortable thinking about. The urge to be free of the cis-male persona was not something I wanted, but something I needed.

Anyone may have a situational dysphoria; a true and legitimate part of themselves which they feel they have to repress in order to live in society, and to have meaningful relationships. Our dysphoria is with the gender which we are expected to manifest; whether we feel we need to manifest the opposite gender, or to manifest something different. We grow up being directly taught to defy our true nature in order to adhere to social norms. For those of us who physically, mentally, and/or genetically defy this pattern, the decision to transition comes from a necessary requirement by our bodies, for the benefit of our own physical and mental health.

Statements from people who know nothing about trans health sound something like "Transsexualism is a choice", and then those people to go on to appoint which of our health concerns are legitimate... it is unfair action made in ignorance which severely impacts the lives of others, without educated advice, or input from the community in question. Gotta love 21st century politics, eh?

All that said, the amount of change we have seen in society at large, on a global scale, in the past fifty years is profoundly encouraging. I doubt that it will take long before we not only have fair access to health care, but equal treatment in all areas of our lives. I'm not sitting and waiting, by any means, I'm just optimistic :)